[大量蓝贴答疑]圣骑士有知道真相的权利——来自螃蟹 全部完工！
来源[url=http://blue./]MMO-Champion[/url]
[size=130%][color=deeppink]日期11.01-11.06[/color][/size]
经过N个小时的翻译，终于搞定了。如有不妥，欢迎指出。
和谐讨论。我的小74才48就惨遭毒手啊啊啊啊啊。。。
[list][quote]
1) Do you really think we'll use AW now other than select PvE encounters?
[color=royalblue]We understand that AW will be used much, much less than it is now in Arenas. That wasn't the intention, but we felt we needed to counter the standard winged bubble opening move that so many paladins were doing. If this change actually seems to make a difference (because to be honest despite the number of nerfs we've done to Ret, they were still overpowered) than we'll consider other ways of getting the same effect that don't involve Forbearance.[/color] [/quote]
[*]你真的认为我们会在除了PVE以外的场合使用复仇之怒么？
[color=royalblue][b]我们明白复仇之怒目前在竞技场中的使用非常非常少，这并非我们的目的，但是我们需要避免大多数圣骑士所做的——无敌翅膀开局。如果这个改动看上去确实比我们考虑的其他不触发自律的方式更有用的话。（老实说尽管我们对惩戒骑士的数字进行了nerf，他们仍然非常OP）[/b][/color]
[quote]
2) Why is it that you're so hot to balance out a class that has been a joke for 2+ years for two weeks of playtime when PvE progression and arena rankings are now all but meaningless?
[color=royalblue]We can't let one spec run around killing everyone just because they were underpowered before. I expect you'd be just as frustrated as other classes if it was Elemental shammies or Feral druids dominating everyone in PvP. Where Ret's history did come into play is we originally tried relatively small nerfs originally (though the paladin community didn't perceive them as such at the time). In retrospect, being gentle there didn't do you guys any favors because then we just had to come back two more times with big nerfs. [/color] [/quote]
[*]为什么你们这么热衷于平衡一个被戏耍了两年却只在3.0这种竞技场排名和PVE进度都变得没有意义的时候只爽了俩星期的职业？
[color=royalblue][b]我们不能放纵一种天赋到处欺压百姓，只因为他们原来一直很弱。我估计当野德和元素萨统治PVP时你们也会这么失望。我们起初只希望通过微小的nerf来平衡（尽管骑士众不这么认为）。以前太温柔没什么用，因为接下来我们不得不痛下杀手狠狠nerf。[/color][/b]
[quote]
3) Where were our desperately needed hot fix buffs for the past two years? Is this new insta-balance stance going to swing both ways?
[color=royalblue]We made a lot of big changes to classes for LK and we need to able to adjust them as needed. I honestly wasn't doing this job for the past two years, so I'm not in a position to comment on why certain decisions were made the way they were. I have faith they were made for good reasons, but I just can't share them with you because I don't know. I will say that the perception around Blizzard was that the Ret paladin situation was very severe. I don't want to understate it. It was considered one of the most egregious balance problems we've had in some time.[/color][/quote]
[*]我们在过去的两年中拼命最求的hot fix buff在哪？是要通过这所谓的平衡来解决？
[color=royalblue][b]我们在WotLK中对各个职业进行了大量改动并且我们要按需要调整他们。老实说我过去两年没这么干，所以我不评论为什么我们这样那样改。我确信他们有好的理由那么做，但是我只是不能告诉你们，因为我也不知道。我想说的是暴雪知道惩戒骑士的处境很艰苦，对此我并不想隐瞒。这是我们在平衡中遇到的最为棘手的问题之一。[/color][/b]
[quote]
4) Where were the desperately needed nerfs to certain classes in arena for the past two season?
[color=royalblue]See above.[/color][/quote]
[*]最近两个赛季为什么要拼命nerf某些职业？
[b][color=royalblue]参见上边的帖子。[/color][/b]
[quote]
5) Will problems such as lack of MS debuffs, interrupts, distance closing, and susceptibility to mana burns/silences be addressed?
[color=royalblue]Mana burns - yes.
Distance closing and interrupts - we are considering giving Ret or paladins in general some new utility to make up for all the nerfs we have made to their damage. It will almost certanly not be MS though. You can find a thread where I recently attempted to explain why we don't want to give out more MS debuffs.
I haven't heard a lot of silence complaints from paladins recently (more than normal I mean). Is this a new problem? Care to elaborate? [/color][/quote]
[*]我们的问题诸如没有致死、拦截、缺乏接近对手的技能和容易被烧蓝/沉默有解决方法么？
[color=royalblue][b]被烧蓝——是的。
接近对手的技能，拦截——我们正在考虑给惩戒骑士一些新玩意来弥补我们对其伤害的nerf。几乎可以肯定的是这不是致死。参见我原来的帖子，里边解释了为什么我们不设置更多的致死Debuff。
过去我并没有听到惩戒骑士过多的抱怨被沉默（我是指比正常的多）。这是新问题么？详细介绍下？[/color][/b]
[quote]
[color=royalblue]I can't honestly believe I'm asking this, but can you please explain this statement? I just don't understand it.[/color]
Q u o t e:
lies are being used to hook them along for a few more months
[color=royalblue]We never promised Retribution would be able to dominate PvP and PvE. Heck, we are usually pretty careful to never promise anything. :) [/color][/quote]
[*][color=royalblue][b]抱歉我不明白，请解释一下好么？我只是不明白。[/color][/b]
“我们被耍了几个月”
[color=royalblue][b]我们从来没有承诺过惩戒骑士将会统治PVP和PVE。事实上，我们在这方面很小心，从不承诺任何事:)[/color][/b]
[quote]
Ghostcrawler - I'm not understanding why the winged bubble move was such a big deal? Bubble in and of itself is overpowered, but that's OK because it's on a 5 minute cooldown. It sort of seems like
it's possible that you're letting people's anecdotes guide this decision.
[color=royalblue]The problem was that the cooldown was irrelevant. The paladin could wing + bubble, then go in with a stun, DS, CS, JoC and maybe Consecrate, all within a few GCDs. If the poor sap on the receiving end was below 35% (now 20%), which was likely, he would get hammered as well. If somehow the target was still alive after all that, or had an ally, the paladin usually had enough mana to heal himself to full. Then, even if the battle was over, the paladin had enough mana to just go on to the next target (minus bubble). In Arenas this didn't matter of course, because with a death that early, the match is usually decided. This strategy was the entire PvP problem with Ret in a nutshell. It didn't take a lot of skill and was impossible to counter. Most other classes can't open with that many abilities at once (ignoring the bubble defense and healing potential). Players complain about rogues stun-locking them, but at least that takes some skill from the rogue to do things in the right order and usually requires an element of surprise.[/color][/quote]
[*]螃蟹，我不明白撑着无敌开翅膀很过分么？无敌很牛，好，但那是因为它有5分钟冷却。好像是大众的言论左右了你们的决策。
[color=royalblue][b]问题和冷却无关。圣骑士开无敌+翅膀，然后神圣风暴，十字军打击，命令审判甚至奉献，短短几个GCD就能完成。然后那个可怜家伙生命值低于35%（现在是20%）,再吃一飞锤就嗝屁了。如果有人吃了那么一套还活着，或者有同伴，圣骑士往往还有足够的蓝来给自己加满血。然后，即时战斗结束，圣骑士也有足够的蓝去搞定下一个目标（没有无敌的情况下）。竞技场中这无所谓，因为一旦有人出局，胜负已定。问题在于惩戒骑士就是小强。这些连招没什么技术含量，挨打的几乎不可能反抗。绝大多数职业不会开局就砸那么多技能（忽略无敌的防御和治疗潜力）。玩家抱怨盗贼对他们晕锁，但至少盗贼这么干需要按准确顺序出招并且通常需要一些RP。[/color][/b]
[quote]
nooooo don't feed the trolls =) I can't believe it when people accuse the developers of lying. That's completely absurd. It requires a delusional mind to make a statement like that.
[color=royalblue]I know. I'm certain I'll regret asking, but if there's anything we can do in the future to have players avoid feeling blindsided by nerfs (or any changes to the game) it would be nice to know.[/color][/quote]
[*]不不不，傻子才回帖呢！我不能想象人们指责开发者们在撒谎。这太荒谬了。只有心智被迷惑了才那么说。
[color=royalblue][b]我明白，我很抱歉，但如果什么我们还能做什么来使玩家不会感觉自己被突如其来的nerf（或者更改）了那会更好的。[/b][/color]
[quote]
You did say several times that ret was fine and there were no plans to change it however. You then said that nerfs would be &surgical&. You also basically said you wanted ret to stay as is for as long as possible because ret pallys were &having fun&.
[color=royalblue]I almost always say &We think they're fine.& I'll be more careful in the future to caveat more, but I do it so much that I made the mistake of assuming players knew that. Ditto with &There are no plans to change them.& That was the truth... at the time. We had convinced ourselves that the bugs were the problem.
The nerfs were surgical... and in retrospect so painless that they actually didn't fix the problem. :( Paladins were having fun. I heard from several of them who said that Ret finally played how they always dreamed it could. I think they were legitimately talking about the mechanics too, not the fact that they could roll anyone. We knew paladins would take it very hard, so we waited as long as we could to make sure it was a real problem before nerfing them. If we could have solved things any other way, we would have. I know it sucks. Believe me, I know.
And even if I had promised to never, ever change anything, is that really a promise you want us to keep just for the sake of doing so? Nope, the game is in flames, but I gave my word, so just suck it up. I know that's not what I asked, but I think that is why I am so perplexed by the effort to somehow catch us as if that will make us undo the changes.[/quote][/color]
[*]你说过好几遍“惩戒很好很和谐，我们不打算修改它”。然后你又说“这只是一次外科手术似的nerf”，你还说过你希望惩戒能更持久因为“玩家很快乐”！
[color=royalblue][b]我几乎说过我们认为惩戒很和谐，我以后会更加小心的提出警告。我做的过火了，我误以为玩家明白。类似的“目前还不打算更改”。这是事实，当时是。我们坚信bug才是问题。
外科手术似的nerf。。。以前几乎不疼是因为几乎没什么被修正的:（ 圣骑士们很开心，我听一些玩到自己梦寐以求的74的玩家说。我相信他们在做客观的评价，而非因为他们可以横扫千军。我知道圣骑士们很难接受，所以我们在nerf他们之前花了很长时间来确保非nerf不可。如果我们能通过其他手段搞定它，我们肯定会那么做的。我知道这很suck，相信我们，我知道。
即使我承诺永远不更改什么，那么我们真的能这样做么？不，游戏还在不断调整中，但是我答应你们。所以，忍忍吧，我知道我是在请求你们，但我认为这就是为什么我会因为那么多人希望我们撤销补丁而困惑。[/b][/color]
[quote]
My biggest question and I would REALLY like an answer is how do paladins go from fine in beta AND the ptr to blantantly OP and out of control on live only a few days later? How many months of testing did you have data and player feedback on about ret but again it was fine then but not on live. Makes no sense to me....
[color=royalblue]I have answered this a dozen times as well, so it surprises me that people who follow the story haven't heard the explanation.
We had several bugs that we thought were inflating Ret's damage. The most notorious one happened where players re-equipped weapons to stack buffs (think about that before you exploit bugs in a beta next time). There were a couple of situations where talents were increasing crit damage bonuses much higher than we expected. And there were a few numbers wrong in some of the new scripts we put into place to handle the new Seal / Judgement / Hand system. We thought that once those were fixed that Ret's damage would drop dramatically, and we even told players not to worry because Ret's damage would drop when those bugs were fixed. Unfortunately (really unfortunately) we were wrong, and fixing the bugs didn't have as much of an effect as we thought. By then, 3.0.3 was already out on Live. We thought it was better to make hotfixes right away to see if we could adjust the damage without overhauling all of the mechanics before Lich King shipped. You know the rest of the story from there I trust.[/color][/quote]
[*]我最大的问题，也是最希望得到解答的问题就是为什么圣骑士在beta中“很好很和谐”，在ptr上OP，仅仅几天后就在公众服务器上“不受控制”？几个月的测试你们收集了关于惩戒骑士的足够的玩家反馈，但是现在居然说惩戒骑不是“很好很和谐”？！这是为什么？
[color=royalblue][b]我回答了这种问题N多遍了。人们道听途说着实让我吃惊。
我们发现了一些bug使得惩戒骑士的伤害居高不下。最臭名昭著的一个当属玩家摘下——在装备武器来堆叠buff。（想像一下你下次再beta服务器发现bug之前）。N多的天赋、和情况是的暴击伤害加成比我们预计的要高。在新的用于处理圣印、审判和触摸的脚本中有一些数字出了错。我们认为一旦这些Bug被修正，惩戒骑士的伤害将会戏剧性的下跌，我们甚至告诉玩家不要担心因为如果bug修正惩戒骑士的伤害肯定要降低。不幸的是（悲剧啊！）我们错了。修正这些bug并没有达到我们预期的效果。但那时3.0.3已经要上线了。我们认为最好的方法就是通过hotfix来调整伤害而不用在WotLK前进行大修。其余的故事相信你都知道了。[/color][/b]
[quote]Part two was when they finally did comprehend the data but decided to hook as many as possible by allowing ret to &have fun&.
[color=royalblue]I'm not sure if you are taking this out of context, misunderstanding my point, or just having a little fun. The point was that we were very reluctant to make unnecessary nerfs because Ret was finally a tree that people really enjoyed playing. In fact, our first nerfs were too weak in retrospect because we were paranoid about hurting the spec. :([/color][/quote]
[*]第二部分就是他们最终综合了数据，但是决定控制惩戒骑士“玩的开心”。
[b][color=royalblue]我并不确定你是否在断章取义，误解我的观点，或者只是在开玩笑。事实上我们非常不情愿做出不必要的nerf因为惩戒骑士使他们最终得以娱乐的天赋树。我们的所做出的第一个nerf太渺小了，就是因为我们太担心伤害这个天赋。:([/color][/b]
[quote]How about you saying the margin between pure classes and hybrids would be somewhere around 5%. That is something you said, so you either meant it, or you lied.
[color=royalblue]You're going to have to explain this too. I have backed off using numbers recently. What happened is that players (typically those that didn't quite get statistics or didn't realize their own playing skill) would post screenshots of damage meters with them at the bottom and then demand an explanation. The explanation was that they needed to L2P, but of course I can't say that publicly on the forums. In these cases it's probably better to leave specific numbers out of it and just say hybrids should be close. As soon as you use a number, that feels all precise, like a code of laws or something, and players only see the number, not the philosophy behind it.[/color][/quote]
[*]怎么解释你所说的纯DPS职业和混和职业的差距在5%左右。这是你所说的，你不是这个意思，或者你在撒谎。
[color=royalblue][b]我将要对此作出解释。我回顾了以往的数字。事实是那些玩家贴出处在伤害榜底部的截图要求我们解释。尤其那些没有严格统计或者不知道自己技术如何的玩家。解释就是他们需要学会享受游戏，当然，我不能在论坛上公然这么说。于是最好的方法就是用数字说话——混和职业应该接近纯DPS职业。一旦你使用了数字，这让人觉得很精确。就像法典或者其他什么。玩家也只关注数字，而非它背后的哲学。[/color][/b]
[quote]GC on nerfs
We don't nerf anyone due to public outcry. If we did, there would probably be 1-2 classes left that were even PvP viable. :) At most seeing a lot of QQ about one class might get us to look at the numbers to see if there is any truth to the matter... So your telling me that the nerfs happened by coincidence when 3.0 hit live and the qq started, instead of being handled in the months and months of beta? interesting...
[color=royalblue]I explained this above. We knew the damage was too high, but we thought it was all the bugs we introduced by rebuilding all the abilities. We don't nerf classes just on public outcry, or all of you would be doing 10 dps by now. :)[/color][/quote]
[*]关于nerf，螃蟹你说过
我们并不会因为公众的怨念nerf谁，如果我们这么做了，那很有可能只有一两个幸存下来的职业能参与pvp。如果抱怨的人数非常多我们顶多会研究一下是否属实。所以你说刚好在3.0上线时nerf骑士，而非在beta的几个月中搞定它？有趣的言论。。。
[color=blue][b]我上边已经解释过了，我们知道（圣骑士）伤害太高了。但是我们认为这是我们改动技能时的bug造成的。我们不会因为公众的怨念nerf职业，如果那样你们现在只剩下10dps了:)[/color][/b] ——译注：找抽么这是？！
[quote]GC on mana
As I posted in one thread, you should be able to use those core abilities (Divine Storm, a Judgement / Seal and Crusader Strike) without going OOM. Some players are finding that to be true, so please let us know if you aren't. ... To me, it seems obvious that taking away a larger mana pool and increasing the amount drained by maan burns with little mana return is a terrible idea, but Im not a developer or anything... And no mana % on drains will only cause higher mana pool users to QQ. Just fix JOTW
[color=royalblue]Plenty of paladins have supported our findings here. You shouldn't go out of mana that quickly. And even if somehow we're wrong about that, it still doesn't qualify as a lie. A lie would be if we said &We won't ever change Ret no matter what,& or even &You can never, ever go out of mana.& (And even the latter comes across more as misinformed than malicious.)[/color][/quote]
[*]关于法力值，螃蟹你说过
我在某个帖子中提到过，你们应该能使用核心输出技能（神圣风暴，圣印审判和十字军打击）并不空蓝。一些玩家一经发现了这个事实，所以如果你发现不是这样请告诉我们。对我来说，大幅降低法力值上限并且增加烧蓝的量是一个很可怕的想法，但是我并不负责设计工作。按百分比烧蓝将对蓝多的造成更大的影响。修改一下智慧审判吧。
[color=royalblue][b]很多圣骑士支持我们的发现。你们不应该很快空蓝，即使我们错了，我们也没有撒谎。什么才是谎言呢？如果我们说“无论如何我们都不会修改惩戒骑士”，或者“你永远不会空蓝”这才是谎言口牙~（即使后者被理解为恶意的欺骗）[/color][/b]
[quote]At Blizzcon
Q: &Concern about ret pallies doing burst damage.& ...&Lots of bugs in beta that made [ret paladins] do more DPS... we don't think [current damage] is way off, honestly.& GC: &Don't nerf me bro!& (Tons of laughter). Chilton: &We've tried to take it away from the uncontrollable proc damage...we want them to feel strong...we want to put a kill in the hands of a player [,not luck].&
I guess our damage went from not a ways off to being very op, Ill agree with you on this, our damage was ridiculous, but still, saying its not that bad to nerfing all damage is dangling the carrot.
[color=royalblue]Um, I'd say it pretty much the same way today. Lots of bugs in beta made [ret paladins] do more DPS... we don't think [current damage] is way off, honestly. &The we don't think& part turned out to be wrong. You can say we we were misinformed or hopeleslly naive, but that doesn't qualify as deceit.
We don't need to keep up the he said - she said debate though. I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something as to why paladins projected such malicious intent on us. But I think it comes down to us having to make several nerfs in a row after initially indicating that we didn't think we'd have to, on a spec that has historically felt that it wasn't taken seriously.
I've apologized for having to do it. I've stated that our intent is still to make Ret viable in PvP and PvE to a greater extent than in BC. I think it's time for us all to move on (he says to the stunned relief of the other 9 classes in the game).[/color][/quote]
[*]在Blizzcon上
Q:“关于惩戒骑士的爆发伤害”，“一堆bug使得惩戒骑士造成了更多的伤害”。我们并不认为当前的伤害不靠谱。老实说，螃蟹说到，“哥们别再Nerf我了！（爆笑）Chilton：我们试图移除不可控的伤害。我希望圣骑士们强大的可以靠双手搞定敌人，而非运气。
我明白目前圣骑士的伤害OP了。我同意这一点，我们的伤害的确荒谬。但是你们不会要把他nerf成渣吧？
[color=royalblue][b]恩……我想说现在也是如此（OP）。一堆bug使得惩戒骑士造成了更多的伤害，我们认为目前的伤害有点不靠谱。事实上，我们认为的部分错了，你可以认为我们太幼稚或者抱有太大希望，不要把这个当做欺骗。
我们不需要继续维持她的言论，尽管有些争议。我只想确信我没有遗漏一些诸如为什么骑士们这么愤怒。我认为这是因为我们在最初表示不会nerf后不得不连续的nerf他们造成的。这是个历史问题，别太较真。
我已经对我们这样做道歉了，我们已经开始努力使惩戒骑士在PVE和PVP方面能比在燃烧的远征中做的更好。我认为我们应当继续前行。（他提到了其他9职业昏迷的减免）[/color][/b]
[quote]GC, I don't know if you're still reading this thread, but could you please please consider the above suggestion? I think a lot of people seem to agree that it would be a much better solution than the current post-hotfix implementation.
[color=royalblue]We will definitely consider additional changes to Ret or alternate ways to implement the current design (such as exclusivity between DS and AW). First we need to make sure that the data nerfs do in fact nerf the spec, because so far our changes have had nominal effects. If we can Ret in the ballpark, then we can iterate on the numbers a little bit more. For several weeks they haven't even been in the ballpark.[/color][/quote]
[*]螃蟹，我不知道你是否还在关注这个帖子，但是恳请考虑一下我们的建议。我认为很多人都同意这是比执行目前的hotfix好的多的解决方法。
[color=royalblue][b]我们肯定会考虑对圣骑士进行一些额外的更改，或者调整目前的设计（比如分离无敌和翅膀）。首先我们要确定我们nerf的数据的确起到了作用，因为目前为止我们的改动作用不甚明显。如果我们反复细微的改动数字的话可能会被排除出某个范围（OP？）。[/color][/b]
[quote][color=royalblue]Our eventual plan is to put Divine Shield on a shared 30 sec cooldown with Avenging Wrath. We also plan on changing Divine Shield's attack speed penalty (which isn't really much of a penalty) and have it apply to all damage done while the bubble is up.
Divine Protection would no longer have the attack penalty, but since Prot paladins typically talent out of that penalty, it won't have a big effect on tanking (though obviously that talent would need to do something slightly different).
All of this assumes that preventing AW from being used with DS actually makes the Ret tree a little more balanced. We'll need to monitor that a little bit longer first.
We are going to go ahead and change the mana drains to a percentage of mana so that Ret paladins don't lose so much larger a percentage of their mana than casters with 15K mana.[/quote][/color]
[*][color=royalblue][b]我们最终的计划是使无敌和复仇之怒共享30秒冷却。我们还计划改动无敌的攻击速度惩罚（其实惩罚很少），并使之作用在开启无敌后的所有伤害上。
神圣防护将不再有攻击惩罚，但如果防御系的代表天赋没有了惩罚，它将对tank产生大的影响。（虽然很明显那个天赋需要一些请未修改）。
所有这些防止无敌和翅膀一起用的假设将会是惩戒骑士更加平衡。我们将会持续关注。[/b][/color]
[quote]I don't like the idea that we're getting a patch tonight that has to be reversed later (reversals have a habit of coming late), but it's a good plan nevertheless.
[color=royalblue]As I said, we need to make sure that the last nerf fixes the problem. We've had a few rounds now where changes that we thought would tone down the damage didn't do it enough. If this does the trick, then we can stop nerfing Ret and try to smooth out the rough edges like ths.[/color][/quote]
[*]我并不喜欢三天两头打补丁修来补去，尽管这是个好方法。
[color=royalblue][b]就像我说的，我们需要确定上次的nerf起作用了。很多次我们认为改动能降低伤害，但事实上力度不够。如果这个成功了，我们就会停止nerf惩戒骑士并试着修正瑕疵。[/color][/b]
[quote]...where the attack speed penalty is wiped and the damage is halved. The two would cancel each other out
[color=royalblue]Yeah, there is no reason to keep the attack speed penalty if damage is halved. The attack speed penalty was a very old construct that made sense when white swings were such a huge chunk of paladin damage. It just hasn't kept with the times.[/color][/quote]
[*]攻击速度惩罚被取消，伤害被减半，这俩改动互相抵消了嘛。
[color=royalblue][b]是的，当伤害减半后没有理由再对攻击速度进行惩罚。攻击速度惩罚是一种非常老的设计，只在白字伤害占骑士总伤害的绝大部分时起作用。现在已经跟不上潮流了。[/color][/b]
[quote]If after this change, the numbers show that damage is now too low, burst is now too low, sustained is too low, will action be taken to rectify the problem, or will Retribution suffer the same fate it has for the last 2 years and have absolutely no representation in high ranking arena teams?
[color=royalblue]To the ground? No? Anyone?
Seriously, we are strongly considering letting Vengeance stack up to 5 stacks (perhaps for more points) to make sure sustained damage is still good enough. We may still add a secondary effect to Crusader Strike too. Burst is certainly easy to add if we need to, though I really hope we don't have to. :)
When you think about things from our perspective, we spent a lot of time and effort to overhaul paladins in general and Retribution in particular. If we wanted Ret to be a joke, we would have just left the tree as it was, and maybe kicked it a little for good measure. But when you think about what we did do (and how long it took, and the bugs we had to contend with) it should be clear that we want to see the spec out there taking names. Just not quite so much as it was a couple of weeks ago. :)[/color][/quote]
[*]这次改动过后，数字显示我们的伤害太低了，爆发力太低了，续航太差了。这将影响到修正问题，或者惩戒骑士将要承受和过去两年一样的痛苦，在竞技场中没有地位。
[color=royalblue][b]成渣了？不？谁啊？
严肃的说，我们考虑使复仇能叠加5次（也许需要额外的天赋点）来是你感觉你的持续性伤害还不错。我们还计划为十字军打击增加一个额外的效果。如果我们这么做了，爆发是很简单的。即使我希望我们不这么做:)
当你处于我们的观点考虑时，你会发现总的来说我们花了很多时间来修改，尤其是惩戒骑士。如果我们希望惩戒骑士成为一个笑话，我们只需要把天赋树放那里不管就惩，或者额外nerf它一点。但是当你考虑到我们已经做了什么（和花了多长时间来修正，我们在与bug竞赛），很明显我们希望惩戒天赋能名副其实。只是不像过去几周那样过分。:)[/color][/b]
[quote]This is a fine example of the information the community craves. You don't just have to tell us about upcoming buffs/nerfs that are definite. If anything, telling us about changes you're actually considering, even if they don't actualize, gives the community better insight into the development process. It also gives us a chance to offer feedback and our own insight on the ideas you guys have been getting.
[color=royalblue]I’m cool with that, but the downside is there will be some people posting tomorrow demanding the “changes that were promised.” We’ll just have to see how it goes. If nobody freaks out, I am happy to keep offering some information on what we’re working on for the future. It is useful – sometimes -- for us to get feedback before we implement features or make changes. If we end up not making these specific changes, and there are a dozen more posts about my lying to the community, we’ll just keep our cards closer to our chest in the future.[/color][/quote]
[*]这是一个群众怨念的好例子。你并没有在将要到来的buff/nerf已经是注定的时候告诉我们。总之，告诉我们你们的打算，即使并没有实现。给群众更好的机会深入开发进程。这也使得我们能对你们的想法提供反馈。
[color=royalblue][b]我赞同，但是消极的方面是会有人说“你们以前承诺过要这么改”。所以我们只好不这么做，而是观察修改的效果。如果大家都不那么冲动，我恨高兴与你们分享一些我们工作的信息。它很有用——某些时候——可以在我们实现调整之前为我们带来反馈。如果我们最终没有作出更改，总会有人指责我撒谎。所以我们只好对未来的事情守口如瓶。[/color][/b]
[quote]DOT effect is a poor fit for Retribution class, it lacks any kind of synergy with existing abilities and in PvP suffers from large number of problems – being affected twice by resilience, first time as “critical” effect and second time as damage over time effect and being prone to dispels.
We are trying to keep it from being a major source of damage in PvP. This was an example of shifting burst damage to sustained damage.[/quote]
[*]DOT效果实在是不适合惩戒骑士。它与现有技能缺乏协作，在pvp中又有大量问题——他受两次韧性减免，第一次爆击，第二次是dot减免，而且还容易被驱散。
[color=royalblue][b]我们试着不使其成为PVP中主要的伤害来源。这是调整爆发和持续性伤害的例子。[/color][/b]
[quote]Ok, so what happens to Prot and Holy? How do you buff seals without buffing Ret? If you keep these specs the same, what is to say PvP + Prot won't happen for burst?
[color=royalblue]We are probably going to modify a deep Holy talent or two to add additional damage (J of the Pure maybe). That’s pretty safe. We’re not hugely worried about Prot, because there’s this thing they can do with their shields that can do some pretty sweet burst damage….[/color][/quote]
[*]好吧，那么防护和神圣骑士呢？你们在nerf惩戒骑士的时候buff圣印了么？如果他们还是老样子，所谓的PVP+防护靠什么爆发？
[color=royalblue][b]我们有可能修改深神圣天赋来增加额外的伤害（可能是纯净审判）。这样做很安全。我们对防护不是很担心，因为他们拿盾的时候还能造成不错的爆发。。。[/color][/b]
[quote]Mages are horribly overpowered right now despite what they admit, and it really was a slap in the face to all your beta testers not to put these patches and hotfixes initially in only Beta, to start or get better feedback from them. Jayde and many others myself included have worked exceedingly hard to ensure the game was in excellent shape and it tells me our work was substandard or just not appreciated by the Devs for you to behave as such.
[color=royalblue]Ooh… slaps to the face. Nuclear escalation! As I’ve said, we don’t think mages are overpowered, certainly nothing to the level that Ret paladins were. I really hope anyone doesn’t feel like their feedback is useless just because we don’t always agree with you or don’t run off to implement every suggestion we see. The feedback is still useful, and always appreciated, even if we don’t agree. Who knows… we might end up agreeing down the road.[/color][/quote]
[*]尽管法师们不承认，他们非常非常OP!这可是给你们这些Beta测试员一记响亮的耳光。我们努力测试确保游戏完美，但结果不和开发者的口味。
[color=royalblue][b]Oh。。。耳光么。核扩散啊！就像我说过的，我们不认为法师op，这与圣骑士的op无关。我可不希望有人仅仅是因为我们没有同意他们的看法或者采纳意见就觉得他们的反馈无用。反馈仍然很有用，并且我们总是很感激。即使不被采纳。谁知道呢？也许有的会被通过。[/color][/b]
[quote]Given the Divine Shield and the Sanctified Wrath nerfs is it even necessary to have these two abilites share a 30 second cooldown?
[color=royalblue]Can someone explain this “Sanctified Wrath stealth nerf” you all keep referencing? Unless I am misunderstanding the issue, we actually didn’t make any changes to it.[/color][/quote]
[*]圣洁之怒和无敌被nerf到有30秒公共冷却了？
[color=royalblue][b]什么意思？我不明白。我们没改什么啊。[/color][/b]
[quote]so GC, why are you forcing us to be laughable once more? note that we don't need to be overpowered to be taken seriously, but this is getting ridiculous since we're getting nerfs left and right while everyone that can make mince meat out of us are getting buffs.
[color=royalblue]It’s not about who gets buffs or nerfs. When you’re building a chair, you want the seat to be at the right height. It doesn’t matter if you add to some legs or cut others off. I realize nerfs feel bad, but really it’s the final numbers that matter. The worst class is NOT the one that gets the most nerfs – it’s the one that does the least damage (in the case of this forum at least).[/color][/quote]
[*]好吧螃蟹，为什么你有一次是我们成为了被嘲笑的对象？我们有OP到那么严重的程度么？被砍了N刀之后我们被任何人随意鱼肉。
[color=royalblue][b]谁被buff/nerf不是问题所在。当你造一个椅子的时候，你希望得到一个合适的高度。你把增加一条腿，或者去掉其他的腿无所谓。我知道被nerf感觉很糟糕，但是只有最终的数字才是问题所在。最糟的职业不是被nerf最多的职业，是造成影响力最小的职业（至少在论坛上——不被关注）[/color][/b]
[quote]GC, I understand the changes you are making now and for the most part they make sense, at least at level 70. However, I would think it would be wiser now to wait till level 80 before anymore nerfs/buffs since the expansion is so close.
We spent by far most our effort testing at 80. You can find plenty of threads from people who are angry that we let class balance be knowingly off for a few weeks at 70 since we think it will be better at 80. There is a (mis)perception among some of the angry Retadins that we hotfixed nerfs based on a couple of days of forum QQ at 70. We had already been working on those changes. We hotfixed them because we wanted to make sure we had time to get feedback on them and see them in action before everyone reached 80. We completely understand that raid and PvP balance at 70 will be largely irrelevant in a little over a week.[/quote]
[*]螃蟹，我明白你们所做的更改并且绝大多数都起了作用——至少在70级的时候。但是我觉得等开放了资料片，大家都80了在讨论buff/nerf更为明智。
[color=royalblue][b]我们花费了很多精力测试lv80的情况。你能找到很多抱怨关于lv80不平衡的帖子。[/color][/b]
[quote]we need buffs and fixes. we need to be A WELL DESIGNED CLASS GC
[color=royalblue]I agree you need a well-designed class. Being able to beat everyone in PvP and top the damage meters in PvE with mediocre gear is not well-designed (though it might be fun for you (and only you)).[/color][/quote]
[*]我们需要buff和nerf，我们要成为一个完美的职业，螃蟹！
[color=royalblue][b]我同意你们需要一个完美的圣骑士，但是仅靠一身中等装备就PVP中所向披靡，PVE输出拔头筹，显然不是完美的体现。（很有趣吧？）[/color][/b]
[quote]I think its funny how GC never addressed when other players asked about the OTHER classes/specs that do unfair amounts of damage in PvP and arena.
[color=royalblue]Sure, I do. There are posts all over this forum. We have hotfixed mages and boomkin. A big nerf to hunters (WF only benefiting melee) is coming today.[/color][/quote]
[*]我发现当有玩家抱怨其他职业、天赋在pvp中造成了不和谐的伤害时GC总是玩人间失踪。
[b][color=blue]我当然有动作。整个论坛都有这种帖子。我们已经Hotfix了法师和平衡D，猎人也被狠狠地宰了一刀（只有近战享受风怒）。[/color][/b]
[quote]Another note, you have lied. When you hotfix JotW, AW, and judgement damage without warning players in game, that is a lie. I was fortunate enough to come on the forums and see the hotfixes for myself.
[color=royalblue]I don’t think that word (lie) means what you think it means. A lie would be “We didn’t change JotW, AW and Judgements.” And even then, more likely it would be a just bad information on my part.
We don’t always post changes before they go out. When this hotfix went out, I was out of town touring wineries or something. I checked in on the beta forums, saw no discussion, and figured we weren’t going to make any changes for a few days. (I am involved in all the class discussions, but a lot of other people have to weigh in on when we do a patch or hotfix since so many different folks are involved.) Hours later I read EJ or Wowinsider or something and saw a reference to the hotfixes. Uh oh. It was only then I checked the live forums and realized that players couldn’t access the beta forums (I could, so I just assumed traffic was light). Meanwhile, the live forums looked like the After picture of a mountain that decided to respec volcano.
In retrospect, I should have posted the upcoming changes sooner, but we sometimes wait to release big announcements like that to make sure we can make them globally at the same time. There was a recent buff to warlock spells and I didn’t announce that one before the fix either. It happens. This was just a divine storm of a lot of complicating events (unannounced nerf, victimized spec, forums being down, weekend) all at once.[/color][/quote]
[*]在另一点，你又撒谎了。你们hotfix智慧审判，复仇之怒和审判伤害时并没有对游戏中的玩家进行警告。这是谎言。我自己到论坛上看到了hotfix算是幸运了。
[color=royalblue][b]我不觉得我们可以用撒谎形容。如果我说“我们没有改智慧审判，复仇之怒和审判伤害”，这才是撒谎。即使那样也更像是消息的错误。
我们在更改放出之前通常不提前发帖通知。当hotfix放出时，我出去XXOO了。之前我检查了beta论坛，发现没有相关讨论，得出我们近几天不会作出更改的结论（我参与所有职业的讨论，但是所有人都想知道下一个补丁或者是hotfix的内容）。几小时后我通过在线新闻得知了这次hotfix。Oh~就在那时我才去公众服务器论坛检查，想起玩家们是进不去beta论坛的（但是我可以。我以为他们可以）。接下来公众服务器的论坛就像火山爆发。。。
以前我肯定尽早把即将到来的更改贴出来，但是有些时候我们放出新闻时要确定各个区域能同步进行。过去术士的一个法术被buff了但我没有在hotfix之前放出新闻。这就是一系列复杂的问题。（未提到的nerf，天赋不合适，论坛关闭，周末）引发的神圣风暴的。[/color][/b]
[quote]Can I kiss you?
[color=royalblue]I’m kind of salty.[/color][/quote]
[*]我能吻你么？
[color=royalblue][b]螃蟹：我很咸的。[/color][/b]
译注：好水的蓝贴
[quote]Sanctified Wrath is not giving us the &bypasses 50% of damage reducing effects& effect when we pop AW. It hasn't been since the 3.0.3 patch. Can we please get a response on this GC?
[color=royalblue]We think we accidentally broke this effect. It wasn't an intentional nerf, but we're still looking into it.[/color][/quote]
[*]神圣愤怒不再给我们“无视50%伤害吸收”效果。3.03补丁前不是这样，能给我们个解释么？
[color=royalblue][b]我们认为我们不小心破坏了这个效果。这不是有意的削弱，但我们还会对此进行调查的。[/color][/b]——感谢thundern同学的翻译。
[quote]Go in paladin forums if you don't want to see me... this is damage dealing forum... I deal damage... I'll read these forums... and when i see 50+ post in this thread whining and complaining then i'm gonna call them out.
[color=royalblue]The basic idea here is sound. Part of the problelm with paladin only threads or forums is you don't get any other perspective. Instead we just get multiple pages of paladins (though it is the same with any class) saying that they are underpowered and need buffs. While the discussion may be contentious at times, we do want other players to be able to weigh in on what you're saying. We will take their comments with a grain of salt, as we do with all comments.
We will try to stay on top of banning trolls who don't have anything useful to contribute.[/color][/quote]
[*]不想看见我就去骑士区。这是DPS论坛，我是dpser，我来这里看帖，但是我看到了50+个帖子哀号和抱怨。我准备把他们请走。
[color=royalblue][b]引起关注最基本的方法就是吼。圣骑士区的帖子的问题是目光不够长远。相反，我们只看到圣骑士们盖得高楼贴说他们是太弱的，需要buff（其他职业也那么干）。这种讨论很容易引起争吵，我们希望其他玩家能对你们的说法进行评价。我们会半信半疑的才那他们的意见，对待其他评论也一样。
我们将会在置顶中指出别发没营养的帖子。[/color][/b]
[/list]
请问什么时候出探索.
这不是我想知道的答案
楼主加油 翻译的我都看过了
QS众是永远被欺骗的孩子,我们永远拿到的是一块发霉的糖...
[quote][pid=][b]Post by 破光残影 ( 00:12):[/b][/pid]
这不是我想知道的答案[/quote]
那个“每一个圣骑士都想知道的答案”是帖子的主标题。。。
话说看这种帖子只是自己郁闷自己
现在我心态变了。。我在看螃蟹用它不够用的脑子来怎么继续nef得不可能再nef的职业
坐着等= =
还没过四级的人掩面而过...
简直太搞笑了，不给PAL更多的主动技能却又抱怨PAL的操作没有技术性。
芊芊的晕锁很有技术性吗？任何一个会看debuff倒计时并且不脑残的玩家都能做到。
还是说三年的biu～biu～和冰环链很有技术性？
排版很舒服，谢谢楼主
晕倒，我已经被一连串NERF搞得脑袋里一团浆糊。。。我并不是只想称赞楼主的排版。我还想敲开BLZ设计人员的脑壳看看里面到底是些什么
骂了BLZ后被禁言一周并加入骷髅党..现在终于能发贴了~~MB的,论坛我抱怨下都不行了?等没人抱怨了,这区也差不多可以删了~~!!!
楼上 你还差点 我这16威望都是因为骂BLZ没得
这帖子内容真不少……楼主慢慢翻吧
贼的晕锁需要准确的时间出招？还需要RP？
我认为
他们一开始就没玩过QS 然后听着大众言论来给予NERF
我觉得真正的问题在于他们永远没有想过如何真正的来设计圣骑士
辛苦了。。。。
[quote][pid=][b]Post by 音箱 ( 00:47):[/b][/pid]
贼的晕锁需要准确的时间出招？还需要RP？
哎……[/quote]
准确时间？我怎么不觉得要多精准？反而我感觉74的制裁和忏悔时间倒是要精准的算下，虽然很多时候都是被解了或者抵抗。
至于RP？是指肾击被抵抗？好吧，可是3年了我怎么觉的抵抗肾击才需要RP？
怎么好象都是以前的碎碎集合起来的大杂和...貌似在哪儿看过了...
没啥新意在里面...